Bianca D McCall, LMFT Welcome to the NOCE Dose brought to you by the Nevada Opioid Center of Excellence at nvopioidcoe.org. I'm your host with the NOCE, Bianca D. McCall, and we're back for season two to examine how opioid use disorder impacts special populations in groups with distinctive health vulnerabilities. In this journey, it takes us across the lifespan and amplifies the voices and unique experiences of these groups. And I'm grateful that you are joining us to celebrate the resilience of these individuals with disabilities, with neurodivergence and birthing women and families, professionals and performers, honoring cultural traditions and healing trajectories of a beautifully diverse Nevada. Let's get ready to debrief during our last listening session. We explored the intergenerational and biological effects of our opioid exposure at birth and beyond, breaking down the experiences of birthing mothers, the relationships and the engagement opportunities with the healthcare and behavioral health systems, how in-utero exposure impacts bonding, feeding, and long-term neurodevelopment. The listening session was incredible, you all. And today's revisit is sure to carry that same level of energy. And today's guest brings both clinical insight and lived experience to the conversation, championing developmentally sensitive and culturally appropriate strategies for effective opioid response and intervention. Dr. Ebony January, also known around NOCE as Dr. EJ. a board certified OBGYN, health equity advocate and bold visionary in maternal care. And when I say bold, I'm thinking of Dr. EJ's opening remarks during the listening session, which almost shut us down before we began. And in the beginning, we were B for believing in the clear mission that she states every mother, no matter her story, no matter what deserves informed care. community support and healthy starts. With a witness to the O for overcome, Dr. EJ mentions during the listening session that she has personal lived experience overcoming the impacts of her mother engaging in a dangerous relationship with alcohol and addiction. And I repeat, we are witnesses to the L for leadership. Dr. EJ, author of Empowered Motherhood, an essential guide to thriving during pregnancy and beyond. I've got my copy right here, if you could see it here, but I've got my copy. I'm not pregnant, but I'm reading it for the beyond and the inspiration to be the hope, to be informed as a community support and to follow the good doctors lead. And we can't forget the D, the D for delivered. Dr. EJ specializes in delivering babies, bringing life to this conversation and how we support birthing mothers who, Dr. EJ, you said, adopt the identity that we are everything to everyone and nothing to ourselves. Such a profound truth that I look forward to unpacking today. So let's get right into it. Dr. EJ, how are you? How are you feeling today after the listening session? Dr. Eboni January Well, after that amazing introduction, I'm feeling even better. But, you know, the listening session was really, really, really rewarding, I would say, just to hear. Also, I learned, right, as one of the panelists, I was there to actually educate. However, I learned so much from the other panelists. It was extremely rewarding and even including yourself. And so I'm doing very well, I would say, and I would you know, before the week we started, I said, it's been rough. We talked about how it was a rough week. And I would honestly say that I'm in a season of transformation, you know, both spiritually, emotionally, professionally, and it's not always comfortable, but growth never is. And I'm just learning to take a pause long enough to breathe before I pour into everyone else. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Sure, sure. Gosh, I always use the example of the caterpillar. Most of us, we understand and we remember from childhood stories that a caterpillar goes into the metamorphosis stages, right? And it goes into a cocoon. And for some reason, I think it's because when we're children, when we all learn about this, but for some reason we think that the caterpillar is just in the cocoon chilling, right? And it's just comfortable. and somehow just emerges, re-emerges as this beautiful butterfly. But in actuality, while the caterpillar's in that cocoon, what do you think is happening? It's being liquefied. It's being absolutely destroyed in order to be restructured and redone and reshaped into a new creature. And so when you mentioned that growth is never comfortable in all the things, I believe it. It reminds me of the butterfly metaphor. And I'm wondering for you, Dr. Eboni January Yes. Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT what's occurred in life that you maybe didn't expect or what's happened since the listening session that has shaped kind of your approach in coming to today's conversation. Dr. Eboni January You know, when we talk about during the listening session, obviously is focused in on opioid use disorder. And many times we fail to recognize that women who are being affected by opioid use disorder, that we forget that they are people and that they have things going on. And many times it's mental health issues, right? That's your background. so there are people who can't always everyone's dealing with it differently. And obviously their outlet is opiates. And then for me, coming out of the listening session, also dealing with just my mental health issues, losing my mom, dealing with a sick father that's been sick for a very long time and it's starting to wear on me. I didn't expect for that listening session to have such the toll that it had on me to the point where two days later I booked a hotel room and had a staycation. Right? And, you know, now looking at myself where I am in life, I expected way more progress. I didn't expect the pace, you know, but I also realized that there are opportunities that are opening faster than I could actually plan for them. And that's a blessing wrapped in lessons about boundaries and balance, because that's something that we struggle with as women. You just mentioned that where everything's everyone and nothing to ourselves. And so that listening session really was transformative for me because it taught me even more to turn the mirror on myself, to learn about balance, to be prepared as it pertains to progress, but also that none of this works if my mental health is not in the right place. And when you think of it in terms of the women that struggling with Obreght Youth Disorder, for example, sometimes their mental health is not in the proper place, it's an outlet for them. And so when you talk about being a professional woman who, like I said, with everything to everyone and nothing to ourselves, that listening session really did make me turn, really, really take a deeper dive when you talk about deeper dive into what I'm truly doing for wellness. The gym can't be it, right? I talked about having a hammock in my office where I just kind of like, just relax, but that can't be it. And so learning to take a deeper dive and get help. And so yesterday I had my first therapy session that I've had in years. have been, I tell you, I was like a, I was beating down the door of my therapist and she's so booked and busy that I couldn't get in with her, but something told me to just reach out after the listening session. And I did. And she said, I have availability. And I was like, thank you God. So that listening session, believe it or not, even though I was one of the panelists there too, educate and empower. It had an effect on me that I didn't know. And that's the honest to God truth. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Well, and I love everything that you're saying, of course, but what really stands out to me, you're speaking my language when you talk about starting with self and looking in the mirror and directing that in, even if you're in a position of educating, of helping, of healing, and especially when you're in those positions of educating, helping, healing, it's so important to self-reflect and also to, this is what self-care is, right? And I've in recent, Dr. Eboni January Mm-hmm. Bianca D McCall, LMFT conversations I've kind of transitioned from self-care into just self-love because I think there's so much misunderstanding around what self-love is and you mentioned we can go to the gym we can get our hair done our nails done and we could be active and engage in things that we typically enjoy doing but when it comes to setting boundaries in relationships relationships not just Dr. Eboni January Mm-hmm. Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT personal romantic relationships, but professional relationships and friendships and our community and social engagements. When we set boundaries, those are radical acts of self-love. When we are approaching every opportunity where we can embrace growing as a person, as a professional, when we approach that with looking for opportunities to activate care rather than just adding to our plates and adding. more things, more responsibilities to do, then those are radical acts of self-love, know? And self-care, of course, is derivative of that. But you mentioned that during the listening session as well, of what needs to be activated, right, in these systems. And so you spoke powerfully about how systems are what are failing our pregnant women, especially when responses are rooted in suspicion and punishment instead of Dr. Eboni January Yes. Mm-hmm. Bianca D McCall, LMFT that compassion and that care factor. And I'd love to hear more about your mentioning that we need to activate care, not cuffs and what that looks like in real life and what does it take to build trust when so, excuse me, so many mothers have been criminalized just for seeking help. Dr. Eboni January Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, and I'll give you, talk about lived experience. So lived experience is actually me professional as, you know, as physician. I've taken care of many women who may be tested positive for various drugs, right? And the minute that they test positive in our system and labor and delivery, there's a lot of gossip. There's a lot of, did you know that the mom in room, this room is positive for this and you know, that explains this. But no one talks about What are the next steps for her? The next steps for her automatically goes to, okay, we're going to get social work involved. you know, they talk about is the, is the baby, what are we going to do with the baby? But they never talk about getting her help. No, no, they talk, they immediately go to removing the baby. Is she going to go home with the baby? You know, if she's going out to smoke, is she going out to use, you know, we automatically start passing judgment. on these women as opposed to saying that this is a human being, right? Before I'm a doctor, and I mentioned this before, before I'm a doctor, I'm a woman first. I'm a daughter first. I'm a sister before all of those things. And so many times I'm dealt with as if I'm just a doctor and that's different. So in this particular case, they're dealt with as if they're just an addict, not as if they're a human being that went through something that led to this, right? And I always talk about when we can get from A to Z and people forget everything that happened in between. No one thinks about what that woman went through in her life and her lived experience that got her to this point. And therefore, when we start to step away and think of it in terms of that, then we humanize her as opposed to thinking of her as a criminal or someone who's just a bad mother. And we put the systems in place to support her and get her help. And that also starts with our mindset and how we address and engage with her. It starts there first. And then we talk about building systems because if the system doesn't know that it needs this, then it's never going to happen. Right? So it first starts with the mindset that, as a leader in a hospital or ecosystem, I need to know that this person needs this. I need to make sure that the people who I lead, the people on labor, the nurses on labor and delivery or whomever that they know that they go through training, bias training as it pertains to people with addiction, that they understand that this is a human and these are the systems that we have in place to help this human and not this addict. So that's my take on things. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Yeah, no, and I love that. And I love that you're coming from this lens of systems, right? And how we involve, how we integrate the systems. And you actually said this too during the listening session, and it really resonated with me. You said, clinical care saves lives, but social care keeps us living. And so what I'm hearing there is this invitation, this welcoming of integration of systems beyond... Dr. Eboni January Absolutely. Bianca D McCall, LMFT clinical care. And I mentioned this before during the session that it reminds me of what everybody keeps saying, right? And you hear more and more, especially this day and age, that life is life. And so in that event, that's really a call to action based on what you're saying. It's a call to action from our social services to intervene and start servicing. And so with that, how do you envision Dr. Eboni January Life is. Yes. Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT a fully integrated maternal care model where OBs, case managers, CHWs, doulas, midwives, peer supports, and other community supports are working together, not just around birth, through the entire motherhood journey. Dr. Eboni January So it has to be seamless, right? It has to be because many times I'll tell you, once again, we talked about lived experience and this is me professionally and also having friends who are doctors. Sometimes they feel as though it's just one extra thing that they have to do. But as a leader, I believe in algorithms. I believe in making things like, whether they say kiss, keep it simple, stupid, right? And because when you think of it as an additional burden or an additional step to connect a woman to a social services resource, when you think of it in terms of that, we have to really streamline the process so that it doesn't seem so tedious, so that it doesn't seem so cumbersome for us to be able to refer out knowing that. this woman needs this, this, this, and this. We have to streamline the processes and we have to centralize the processes as well. This is where technology comes into place. And I'll tell you another thing where you talk about activating social services. Social services, they're doing things, but many times we're operating in silos. Women don't know what they have available to them. And also down to insurance carriers. Insurance carriers have various incentives to patients. but the patients don't know that they exist, right? If I don't know that something exists, then how can I take advantage of the social services support that's available to me, right? And so, and if as a doctor, as a clinical person, if I don't know either that it exists, how can I refer, right? So we all need to, it's like playing cards, right? We need to lay our cards out on the table. What resources do you have? What resources do you have? Let's bring them together and package them so that the patient knows that they're there and integrate very seamlessly so that I know as soon as she pops up positive for this, that she needs housing. Boom, she goes here. She's in a food desert. Boom, I have this whatever, this resource available to her. She needs transportation. Boom. partner with Uber and now she can get Uber or bus vouchers. It has to be integrated. And this is why I believe in comprehensive care models. For example, as I stated before, worked for fresh out of residency, I worked for FQAC and it was multidisciplinary, right? We had mental health services, we had dental services, we had podiatry, and then we had CBOs or community-based organizations that we partnered with so that when we... We got the mom in, I see what you need, I can send you here. And it's so seamless. So they definitely did that right. So we have to, if we're playing cards, we have to show our hand. so therefore, once we show our hand, then the mom who is essentially the dealer, she knows exactly what's available to her. We're operating in silos and there are resources, but women don't know that they exist, right? I don't know why we're hiding them or why we just don't leverage. technology, media, to make sure that they know that these resources exist and also internally, we streamline the process. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Yeah. Well, okay. So you're talking about playing cards and immediately what comes to my mind for those that are listening is the card game phase 10. Have you ever played phase 10 doc? So I'm thinking like a run of eight, a run of eight domains of wellness, you know, and being able to have a card for each resource. I'm also thinking about my athletic career and background, which I have to bring up because I'm old and I'm slow now. And so... Dr. Eboni January I have. Bianca D McCall, LMFT to be a storyteller in my athletic experience. But I think about lining up, you know, the half court line and during the summers and we're picking teams and you got to pick a shooter. You got to pick somebody that's going to bang down low. You know, you got to pick somebody that's good at defense to fulfill these roles, right? To on the team, to give yourself the best chance at success. And so I love again, when we're taking the lens of systems, it's not only Dr. Eboni January Yes. Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT doing our due diligence and knowing and learning what resources are available, that hyper local resources are available to be able to deploy, to provide this wraparound care to our mothers and families. But it's also, to me, it's the act of help seeking, the act of reaching out, building those relationships and communication, those lines of communication. How do we do that? Dr. Eboni January Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Right? How do we, how do we come out of those silos, as you mentioned, and create kind of these, these networks? How do we, how do we do that work instead of forcing people that are sometimes in crisis, facing challenges in their, with their health? Why, why do we put the responsibility on them to reach out and to build these networks when we as professionals, you know, what, does that look like in terms of the responsibility to have those networks and bring that to the fight? Dr. Eboni January Yeah. So, and that's a very great question. So I used to have a podcast at CBS radio called the wellness wheel, right? And I didn't know that I was really operating based on the wellness wheel. And I was, when I first got out of practice, I was noticing that women were disparate in various things and it was stopping me from doing my job because I am a fixer, right? And so women would come to me and they would say, Hey doc, I have this going on and I'm running it down. You know, in medicine we call that the differential diagnosis. I'm trying to figure out, okay, you know, no, she doesn't have this. So it's not this. No, she doesn't have this. So it's not this. And I couldn't find anything. And I found that it was a couple of things. It wasn't physical because I couldn't find anything. It was either something that was in her social environment or it was something maybe mental. that was going on or something that was financial. And that's the wellness will, right? Your will has to be balanced. When one thing is off, another thing is off. If financially she was off, it was presenting itself as something that was physical. If socially she was, something was going on, it was presenting itself as something physical, but it really wasn't the physical that was the issue. It was those other things, right? The wellness will. And then when you talk about socially, the social determinants of health, the things that were stopping me from getting her well. whether she couldn't have the right food choices or she couldn't have, or she didn't have the money. As a human, I said, I'm not sending her out of my office without a solution. Even though it's not physical, which is my job, I have to find solutions for her because I have her here and she's a human and I see myself in her. Right? So I started partnering. I started learning and doing the work. to find what resources so that as soon as she had that problem, boom, I had the big joker. I had the resource. As soon as she played one thing, I played that other card because I had the resource that was available for her because I recognized that it wasn't physical, that it was financial, it was mental. I had resources, I had people that I could refer to, I had organizations that I could refer to. I sat on boards that had resources. for this particular patient. So it's going to take us as leaders, us as clinicians to look, if you think of it as us being an octopus, right? We're the head and our tentacles, you know, we have the eight legs and this is my mental resource. This is my social resource. This is my financial resource. She comes to me and now that I have you here, I'm going to, and it's not physical. You have other things going on. Will I have a resource for you? So it's going to take us turning the mirror on ourselves and really putting ourselves in the shoes of the patient and meeting the patients where they are to understand that if they're in crisis, they can't think for themselves. I've been there, right? In crisis, can't, I just need, and I kept saying this last week. I just want somebody to think for me. I just want someone to think for me. So I went to a hotel that had some butler services. You know, I don't have to cook. I don't have to do this, right? It's the same thing. Like we have to be a butler. for our patients sometimes. And as a leader, we have to think for them because that's what leaders do, right? Leaders lead. And so that's what we have to do as systems and we have to start from the top. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Leaders gonna leave and why don't we put the serve back in and listserv, right? And you keep it simple stupid. How about keep it simple services or keep it streamlined services, right? And so I love this, again, this systemic lens that's led by leadership in that sense. And also there's this compassion, there's this level of empathy that you keep Dr. Eboni January You Yes. Thank Bianca D McCall, LMFT referencing as, okay, this is through my professional lived experience. And I also know that you mentioned you have personal lived experience within this space where you've been challenged with stigma and with shame and with lack of information and perhaps education or access that have created these boundaries for you. You talk about the disparities that women often face in the space. Dr. Eboni January Mm-hmm. Bianca D McCall, LMFT with you during the session mentioning being the daughter of an addict, I'd like to hold space for that lived experience as well, if you're open to it. And I'd like to understand how that shaped your approach to care, to advocacy and to the mission to revolutionize maternal health today. Dr. Eboni January Yes. Yeah. Empathy, right? I may not be going through what you're going through, but I understand what you're going through. I've opened up my brain and just my mind in general, right? My heart to understand that although I may not be an addict, I understand. And because I understand, I know that you need help. Remember we talked about in the listening session that people just don't want to be treated. They want to be heard, right? And so with that being said, listening changed the conversation from data to dignity. And that's being the daughter of an addict. saw, understood her why. I understood her why, her reasoning, what led her to this point. And that is what helped me to help other people because I had that lived experience. I knew that my mom was going through, she didn't want to be an addict, but life had beat her up and that was her only outlet. Right? And so, Now when I see women in the office and they tell me, you know, I haven't had a Dr. EJ and they don't know that the reason why they, why Dr. EJ is Dr. EJ is because Dr. EJ has seen how life can beat up someone who sacrificed for her child, her children. She sacrificed, but then when she couldn't take it anymore, when other things happen, then that's what she turned to. She didn't start out this way and I'm sure she didn't want to be this way, but this is what happened. My mom was beautiful. She was smart, you know, very, very intelligent. And this is what, this was what became of her. And so that gave me a great deal of empathy so that I could care for my patients the best. And they know that they, even if I can't fix it. I'm going to find someone who can fix it because I understand. And I empathize with what you're going through, even though I may not be there myself or have any direct experience. And so that is what gives me a different perspective. And that's what even led me to be here today because I couldn't be seeing patients full time, but I knew that the world needed a doctor who understood that life happens and it's not just, it doesn't need to just be transactional, right? There are other environmental things that happen inside of a person's life that leads them to where they are and it also affects their health, right? When we talk about the social determinants of health, sure that word health is in there, but the social determinants include everything that's unrelated to your health. It's your environment. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Yeah. And I love the, from data to dignity and from transaction to transformation, you know, and what you're talking about is this evolution of relationships and rather than adopting, you know, battles with addiction. and, and, dangerous relationships with substances rather than adopt that as, as an identity, as a way of being, looking at it, transforming even just our, our, viewpoints of this, our perspectives, as you mentioned of, of, of this is this is a, relationship that needs healing. This is a relationship that needs healing. And so this isn't, you know, and, and that's, that's Dr. Eboni January Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Perfect space, perfect spaces for empathy, for compassion, for care and compassion for our clients, patients, consumers, that starts with being able to meet ourselves with that. Just an understanding, just an embracing these opportunities to shift paradigm, to shift perspectives about things. And I love that this is the cornerstone of the empowered, what I call, Dr. Eboni January Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT the Empowered Machine led by Dr. E.J. and team. so Dr. E.J., can you tell us more about this Empowered Machine? You're wrapping up a national book tour for your best seller, Empowered Motherhood. I've got my signed copy right here. I'm gonna keep plugging that. And then you're also getting ready to deliver a learning series with the Nevada Opioid Center of Excellence, launching November 5th, I believe, of 2025. Dr. Eboni January Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Tell us more about what's in store for Dr. EJ, the team, the dream, the empowered machine. Dr. Eboni January Sure, I love that. I think you coined that phrase. So, you know, for those listening who have not, you know, heard about the book Empower Motherhood, when I first started practicing medicine, you know, when you go to the doctor, you got the white piece of long paper that they put over the exam table. I wanted my patients to be an active member of the team. Bianca D McCall, LMFT sorry. Dr. Eboni January So when you talk about basketball, always, my dad was an athlete, so I grew up in the athlete household. And so everything was about team this, team that. And I always wanted my patients to be an active participant in their healthcare. And one of the things that I found that they were missing was knowledge, health literacy. They didn't understand their health. Women would come into my office. And I do a history on them and I'd ask them what medications they were taking and they would have to reach into their purse and the medication that they had been on for 10 years. And that was a problem for me. And I said, I don't need you to ever put anything into your body. And you don't know, at least know the name of it. And here I was as young doctor telling these, you know, women in their fifties, like, you know what to do. And they're like, Ooh, she's a bossy little thing. But going back to that piece of paper, on the exam table, I would draw pictures and I would educate them on various aspects of their health, their anatomy, their uterus, their ovaries, their fallopian tubes. And I would draw notes and I would send them with the notes and they would ask, can I take this piece of paper? And I would tell them, of course, I got it up here. You can have this. And so they wanted education. They loved the education. And when I had my podcast, was educating on various things. And so, What I realized was that even in pregnancy, when you talk about the maternal health crisis or just poor outcomes in general across, you know, cultures, that women needed education so that they could be an important member of the team. And so the Empower Motherhood book was just my answer to that, putting packaged things together so that we can improve outcomes through education. And it sits inside of programs that I go into hospitals, communities, and educate. women on the various aspects of pregnancy because it's one of the most vulnerable times and not just women. The people who love them, their significant others, the grandmothers, the grandfathers, because what's happening when women really need someone after pregnancy and during they are turning to family. So it's only right that I also educate families and not just mothers, right? It's like you said, how do I ask someone who's in it? to act, right? So it's important that I get the village involved. And so my book sits inside of programs and I also go and I train at hospitals, doctors on how to be culturally competent and to also how to recognize their own bias. So my solutions are twofold. And that is to educate patients and families, but also to educate doctors and future doctors on their biases so that we can improve outcomes. And then therefore here we are coming together as a team. have an educated patient who now it doesn't seem so cumbersome for me to actually educate this person. And now I'm also understanding this person because of I'm recognizing bias, I'm recognizing culture, things of that nature. We can both speak English, but not speak the same language. So this is when we talk about the empowered motherhood machine. It is really just that it's me educating patients and families and me educating doctors and using myself and my platform to be able to create a national movement. And I'm partnering with hospitals, communities, churches, and it also, the proceeds from the book go to support a healthcare scholarship for maybe the next Dr. EJ or the next provider wanting to deliver culturally competent care. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I love the expansion to now be educating, you know, paraprofessionals in healthcare and behavioral health systems as well with your partnership with the Nevada Opioid Center of Excellence and launching this learning series. What can we expect if we are perhaps a professional or community stakeholder in the state of Nevada specifically that is looking forward to your course coming up? Dr. Eboni January Sure, it is, we have four sessions. November 5th is the first session. And that is really gonna set the stage. We're gonna talk about substance use and health across the lifespan, which is very, very important. The second session, November 12th, we're gonna talk about compassionate care model. So how do we treat families and not just the symptoms. The third session is November 19th. justice and advocacy where we'll be taking a little bit of a dive into law, policy and systems, the responses to substance use disorder. And then the session, the fourth session is December 3rd and that's healing systems. So being able to build intergenerational recovery ecosystems. And it should be very exciting and think very educational. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Absolutely. And I love that education again is the cornerstone of this empowered movement of the empowered machine, because you don't know what you don't know. And we don't know what we don't know. And it's so interesting, especially when we think about the phenomenon of pregnancy, of birthing, is that the body knows, the body goes into these automatic systems, right? And it's so unknown to us consciously of what Dr. Eboni January Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT what activates certain things within that system and how, to what extent we're impacted and influenced by our internal environments and external environments, right? During the birthing process. so education, it's such a huge proponent of successful delivery, right? And growth of families. And it's also, it's something that it needs to be continuous. It needs to evolve with the the ever changing environments when we talk about internal and external environments, they're constantly evolving. It's constantly being reshaped. And so the education and this conversation, it needs to continue. It has to. So I'm gonna ask you this Dr. E.J. If somebody is listening right now and they want to continue this necessary conversation. who they may want to collaborate with you. They wanna bring you in as a keynote. They wanna catch a game with you courtside like I do. How can we connect with you and how can we continue this conversation? And I'll pause. Ethan, are you still there? Was that a freeze on Dr. EJ's side? Okay, all right. I was like, I don't know. Could you guys hear anything I just said? Okay, okay. But you got my previous question? Okay. Okay, okay, perfect. All right, so when, yeah, when she hops back on, I'll ask the question again, but then we'll do some editing around there. So if everything before uploads or if it'll just be from now. fun, fun. Yeah. Well, worst case, well, no. So, you would only get mine, for my report, my reporting doesn't also show her, okay, yeah. Okay. Dr. Eboni January No. you guys hear me? Bianca D McCall, LMFT Mmm. Hello, hello! Dr. Eboni January Hello? Can you all hear me? Bianca D McCall, LMFT And even, I can hear you, yes. Dr. Eboni January What? Oh my god, I don't know what happened. I love a s- Oh- Bianca D McCall, LMFT I don't know either. Ethan, do we know anything as of now? Like when she signs back in or we're not gonna know until after we end? Okay. Dr. Eboni January So what do you mean? I can tell you what I last heard. Bianca D McCall, LMFT So what we're talking about is after we do these recordings, Riverside uploads the files onto, I don't know how to explain it, basically, Ethan will receive each of our recording files. So we won't know until later tonight, possibly tomorrow, whether or not everything we've recorded thus far will be uploaded as a file and make its way to Ethan. Dr. Eboni January Okay. Bianca D McCall, LMFT So. We shall see. We shall see. Dr. Eboni January It just, it just cut out. my God. Bianca D McCall, LMFT I know, I, Riverside, I don't know. Well, I don't know if it's Riverside or, or what's, what's going on, but let's do this. Dr. Eboni January So, we'll get on with the end. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Yeah, for some reason you just got booted out out of Riverside. I'm not sure what the issues are. But like I said, because each of us, like you will have files that will be uploaded. I will have files that will be uploaded. so with hope, with you jumping right back in, everything we recorded before will be safe. It'll just come probably maybe in a separate file. Dr. Eboni January So Bianca D McCall, LMFT I'm guessing Ethan. Okay. So Dr. EJ, with that being said, how about I ask you again, I think we were on the question about how do people get ahold of you? Did you hear that question, Lass? Dr. Eboni January I didn't hear that question, but I thought that that I think you were wrapping up to ask me the last question. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Okay, okay. So I'm gonna restate that question and then we'll go into that. then literally that's the last question and then, I'm sorry. It's that question, how do we get ahold of you? Then I ask you for kind of like your mic drop, final message, and then I give the thank yous then we'll be done. Dr. Eboni January Okay. Bianca D McCall, LMFT All right. So Ethan, as we're ready to get back recording, we'll go from there. How does it look in terms of percentage? Because we're not recording now. Who was still a friend? Okay, okay. And we're still recording. So thank goodness I didn't say any curse words or anything like that. Dr. Eboni January Yes. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Alright, no problem. So Dr. EJ, if somebody is listening right now who wants to continue this conversation, who wants to collaborate, who wants to bring you in as a keynote or wants to watch a game with you court side like I do, how can we connect with you? Dr. Eboni January It's very easy. You can reach out to me via email. It's drej at drej.com. that's d-o-c-t-o-r-e-j at d-o-c-t-o-r-e-j.com. If you are a LinkedIn person, it's Dr. Ebony January. That is Ebony with an I, E-b-o-n-i, January, just like the month. If you are an Instagram person, it is Dr. spelled out, Ebony with an I, January, and then also Dr. Ebony January on Facebook. Bianca D McCall, LMFT I love it, I love it. Make sure you stay connected because I can attest that every conversation with you, Dr. EJ, is an amazing one. You are an incredible, incredible professional and woman, and I have thoroughly enjoyed having these conversations with you. So if you want to continue, please reach out to Dr. EJ. All of those are easy enough handles, right, to remember Dr. EJ at Dr. EJ at Dr. Ebony January. Dr. Eboni January you Thanks. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Now, EJ, so now speaking to the person out there who you hope hears this conversation, not just listens, but really hears this conversation that we had today, what do you want to say to that person? And what do you want to resonate with that one person who needed to hear the compassionate message of today? Dr. Eboni January I want you to know that doctors, are human as well, right? And don't be afraid to speak up. Don't be afraid to treat us as if we are humans, as if we're a woman or a man, whomever, just like you. I think all too often patients see us here and they seem like they're here with regards to their knowledge or just in general. And that is hindering. us from better outcomes, from you being a true member of the team. And so when you, I always remember I grew up in a household with an athlete. And so my mindset is always that the goal is the goal. If you want help and the goal is better health to get off drugs, to, you know, improve your overall health, then you have to let nothing stand in the way of that. That has to be number one priority. Your mindset shift. Your mental health shift, these are mental mindset shifts that I'm referring to. Shift your mindset around how you engage with doctors, how you engage with the healthcare system, how you engage with yourself, as you said, self-love. And so I think that it's important that when we start with the mindset shift and shifting how we look at health, look at addiction and our mindset, then we start to improve outcomes. So, and for the providers on the call, for the people who actually serve people, call me when you want to humanize the work. I really truly help teams to see patients as people, not problems, and to build trust through cultural competence and compassion. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Gosh, I love it. I love it especially because you're talking my language. You're speaking my language. You're talking sports, right? You're talking love, community, systems, togetherness. Gosh, thank you so much, Dr. EJ, for carving out the time today to join us on the No Stoves Podcast. I hold such an incredible, such an immense amount of value for the ways that you show up and you deliver. You deliver honest and informed. Yes, of course, informed, unapologetic. You bring such an important context to this conversation and bringing a voice, know, bringing the platform, of course, and giving a voice to our birthing mothers and advocating for mothers and families. And at the same time, bringing real solutions for these systems. So thank you so much for joining us. Dr. Eboni January Thank you. Bianca D McCall, LMFT And thank you to everyone who has tuned into this episode of the Nostos. These conversations are meant to challenge the ways that we think, to deepen the ways that we listen and expand our confidence and competence for when and how we act. And if you found today's episode valuable, we invite you to subscribe, to share, and to continue this dialogue. Until next time. Stay informed, stay connected, and take great care. Bianca D McCall, LMFT Dr. EJ, please let us know, where can we find empowered motherhood? Dr. Eboni January It is available on Amazon. You can also go to my website, DrEJ.com. That's Dr. spelled out, D-O-C-T-O-R-E-J.com, but it's easily available on Amazon.