Speaker 2: CASAT Podcast Network.

Bianca McCall: Welcome to the NOCE Dose Opioid Crisis Unplugged. The NOCE Dose Opioid Crisis Unplugged is a concise and insightful podcast offering a deeper dive into the realities faced by professionals combating the opioid epidemic. Join us as we reconnect with expert panelists from our listening sessions, providing a behind the scenes look at their work and insights into the pressing issues of prevention and diversion, harm reduction, opioid use, treatment, recovery and reoccurrence prevention. Welcome to the NOCE Dose, brought to you by the Nevada Opioid center of excellence at nvopioidcoe.org. I'm your host with the NOCE, Bianca D. McCall going behind the front lines with professionals and community members alike who support the opioid response programming in Nevada State. And we are gathered here today to debrief after the latest NOCE sponsored listening session which covered the recovery continuum in recurrence prevention for Nevadans overcoming the impacts of opioid use disorder. Now today we're joined by Cheryl Nixon, a Nevada certified Peer Recovery Support specialist specialist who has been giving back to the recovery community since 2018. And as a lead peer support specialist at Nevada, excuse me, Northern Nevada HOPES, Cheryl has worked alongside organizations like Washoe County and Crossroads Women and children's programs, making a lasting impact and recently honored with the Inspire Award at the Nevada Dry Society Gala and a keynote speaker at the hope's annual conference. Cheryl is a true beacon of hope in Nevada's recovery movement. Now get ready for an inspiring conversation with someone who's changing lives every single day. Cheryl, welcome to the NOCE Dose podcast. How are you feeling today and how have you been since the session?

Cheryl Nixon: Hi, I am doing amazing. the session was very inspirational. not only did I share, but I also took in some information from, from others, professionals in our community.

Bianca McCall: Yeah, you know, and we tend to get that feedback, that the platform for the listening session as well as the podcast is a special one. not only as a contributor into that, but also receiving, you know, and speaking about receiving, you know, one of the themes of the listening session, you know, we talked a lot about stigma and how that impacts our people who use drugs communities, specifically looking at those who experience opioid use, disorder or have a dangerous relationship with opioids. And it's such an important topic and I'm excited to talk to you today about, just getting a deeper perspective, about how stigma impacts special communities that, that you've seen up in Northern Nevada and also through your own Personal lived experience and the reason why I approach this subject, and giving it kind of the respect that it deserves, Stigma, it remains one of the biggest barriers to recovery. And for so many, that stigma is deeply felt in community spaces including faith based programs which we talked about during the listening session. And while faith communities have long been these pillars of support, especially in black community and have played a foundational role in 12 STEP recovery programs, there still needs to, there's still work that needs to be done right to ensure that these spaces are truly, yeah, inclusive and recovery friendly. And faith based programming, I'm going to say with pun intended, preaching to the choir here, but faith based programming, it has the power to uplift, it has the power to provide safe havens and be a source of healing. but there's some misconceptions about opioid use disorder still and medication assisted treatment still. And that can sometimes create that unintended barrier to ah, receiving care. And so Cheryl, no one better than you to ensure that we can honor the historical role of faith based programs and community programs and healing while also calling to action that there needs to be an evolution to meet the needs of people in recovery today. So, so let's get right into this. Cheryl, you spoke about faith based programs and community spaces in Northern Nevada, how they were providing essential resources like food and clothing and warm spaces for unsheltered populations. And I loved your sharing these resources. It gave me the opportunity to reference Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the pyramid of possibilities. Right, but, but now I want to take this part conversation, to go beyond just meeting basic needs. And I want to ask you, how can these spaces take the next step in actively supporting long term recovery and reduce some stigma around medically assisted treatment, for example.

Cheryl Nixon: Okay, so like what I've seen and witnessed in not just Nevada community, but community, different communities is the stigma around mat medications. they're not clean, you know, they do, they use the lingo that we hear in 12 step programs which I personally love, that's my way. But everybody doesn't get clean or sober that way. and I just really feel like we, we need to meet people where they are. And in our topic when we was talking about the listening in the listening session, meeting people needs where they are. If I'm hungry or I'm not. I don't have any shoes on or clothes or a coat when it's cold. I'm not even going to have that comfortability to talk about my Substance use. Right. If I have, like, mental health things going on, I can't address the substance use, I can't address my addiction until I also address those other things. So for me, it's like, how can I talk to someone about addiction, about housing if they're hungry, Meeting them out there right where they are is give them food. And we have so many churches and so many, different organizations. If that we would just come together, like one do food and one do clothing, like, and we as a community, because it takes the we. Without the we, we don't have anything. So it takes a collective, of people, different faith. I don't care what faith you is. It really doesn't matter. What matters is touching the human soul. And personally, I've been out there on the streets, you know, it's just a little bit about my, My share, my only personal, personal journey. I remember, going to churches and, and I was hungry, you know, and when I got some food, I was able to listen to somebody and somebody was able to, to like, speak to me, you know?

Bianca McCall: Yeah, yeah. And, and gosh, thank you so much for, for being vulnerable and sharing, Sharing your personal lived experiences and, and, and also sharing and highlighting that in order to be reached, you know, there. There's got to be this, this basic humanity, right? This basic humanity that's identifying and validating, your needs, your basic needs, right? And so it's offering that safe space, that warm space, offering food, these basic needs. And then that's where the connection, can occur and the conversations can occur that we can begin to look at, some of these other areas like self actualization, mental health, treatment, you know, engaging in substance use, treatment and so forth. And I gotta tell you, Cheryl, it was a major takeaway for me when you were saying recovery is a we thing. I love that. A, we thing, right? When you say. I think we're so used to hearing kind of these trendy statements, you know, meet people where they are, you know, it's okay to not be okay and that sort of thing. But, but what's contingent upon understanding that it's okay to not be okay, right? Because there is a safe space, or we're willing to collaborate in creating these safe spaces, or we're willing to meet, which is an action, which is a, there's discovery and there's a pathway. Right? When we talk about what we do in order to meet somebody in the middle. And that's a shared responsibility when you're meeting in the middle and so it's a we thing that. Major takeaway. Major takeaway for me. you also mentioned in the listening sessions that you said in third person, Cheryl has ideas of how to do things. Right? And it's about how can we create these spaces where there's a level of confidence and that psychological safety to be able to present your own ideas about how things, should possibly go. How we can begin to integrate, things like peer support services and things like that into our continuum of care. so inquiring minds want to know, Cheryl, how can we find more creative and inclusive ways to educate both the public and organizations on the roles of things like mat and recovery and beyond. Right? Here's some medications that you can take, right? So Cheryl's ideas. How can we be more creative and inclusive?

Cheryl Nixon: when Cheryl, like I would love or have the vision of like a huge, like just drop in center, right? Like you can take showers. You, maybe have some students, some more peers come in with lived experience with, mental health. Right. with addiction, with different things. Because us peers, we walk in many shoes, right? Yes, we walk in many shoes. Like, I might not have the mental health, but another peer might. And if we all come together and be in this like, community space and if everybody pitch in, we can create aided. Like we have. I don't know. It's like my vision and what I can see is reaching out to people with different skills. Like, if you're a carpenter, come help us build something, right? If you're a painter, we have this. We have this building, we have this platform. How can we make it better? And if there are organizations out there that'll be willing to donate their, Their time and their, Their material, it just would be great if we had more togetherness and if people would come together and let's start with an idea and just build on that. You know what I mean?

Bianca McCall: Yes, yeah, no, I absolutely know what you mean. And we talked a lot about education, and how in order to do that, we need to better inform our communities and be better informed ourselves. just about what does the recovery continuum look like? All the stages of the recovery continuum. Because you make, ah, an excellent point that when we talk about peer support specialists for, an example that there are different, experiences, different skill sets, different areas in which a peer support specialist can truly m. You know, benefit and augment, you know, programming throughout the continuum. And so I, you know, and I appreciate, you know, your comment about how peer support specialists play such an important role in Making recovery feel less awkward is what you said in the listening session. and more accessible. So based on your experience, Cheryl, you know this is a two part question, because I always have to ask complex multi part questions. That's my thing. two part question, first part is, you know, what changes need to happen in these facilities and in organizations to better integrate peers into the recovery treatment continuum. And you know, this is from the moment that someone decides to seek help, for to long term support throughout the continuum. But the second part of this question is if you could please kind of really just outline for us what are the stages of the recovery continuum? What does it look like from that decision point to engage in treatment? And our audience from the listening session, they actually asked this question. They wanted to know, what does the continuum look like for not only the person whose treatment engaged but, but for families and friends that are going through this process, with that individual. So two part question. What can we do to better integrate peers into our recovery continuum and what does that recovery continuum even look like?

Cheryl Nixon: So for professionals, a lot of people don't even know what a peer is. They have like when you take big organizations, the upper management, they don't know, they don't know what a peer is. and I'm going to say this, there still is some stigma and upper management, no matter where you work about the recovery person, and we need to break that. And the only way to break that is for someone to come in and have that, that conversation. Right? And for them to be willing to have that conversation and ask those hard questions. In my experience, a lot of people don't ask that question because they have loved ones. They have loved ones, they have family members, whether it's close family or friend of a family that suffer with addiction and addiction is such, it still has so much stigma on it. Oh no, no, no, we're not going to talk about that. Right. so a lot of people don't want to have those conversations because it really, really hits home. But that's where we need it. That's, that's where like we need to. Upper management, upper. They need. They. I wish they had the desire and the openness to have those conversations with people like myself. and as far as. So I can remember when I first started getting sober, I was afraid. I was afraid because I had no hope. I thought that there was no end, that this was my life and this is where I was just going to die. And I had one person that believed in me. So when that person just starts in their recovery journey, they don't believe in themselves. And it takes the community, a community of other peers, other staff members, a therapist, a physician, a, MA or whomever to go. You can do this at, Once they state they feel, once we feel, I'm not going to say they, because they are me. They are me. Once we feel that, wait a minute, I have someone to believe in me, then we're willing to take a chance on me. Then I can step into that next phase, right? Believing that if they can do it, I can. And it just grows from there. It grows from, I'll never have an apartment, I'll never get my family back, I'll never get my kids back to, oh, my God, I did that. I can do that. And family and friends, that can be, that can be really hard because we have family that, that have bent over backwards, that have done everything within their power to fix their loved one. But we're not broken. We're not broken. so they spend so much time and so much energy and all these resources, but the person's not going to be ready until they're ready. But in that vicious cycle of trying to help and fix them, they spin out themselves, they're exhausted. And in my experience and what I tell family members of some of the people that I worked with, now let me help them and you help yourself, whether that's going to ele anon to your pastor or to some other organization. Now it's time for you to help you, because you've been on this journey, you've been on this ride in this rollercoaster with your loved one, that you'd unlocked yourself.

Bianca McCall: How do you have that conversation, Cheryl? Because, I was just going to say, how do you have that conversation? Because I can just see a family member responding, to that, like, I don't need help. I'm not the one that's, you know, has this, this relationship with substances, with drugs. And so how do you have that conversation? And with someone that you have both the personal and the professional lived experience. So how do you have that conversation?

Cheryl Nixon: I, which I do say, you might not have that experience with the drugs, but the drugs is not the problem. The drugs is just the symptom of the problem. Now, that person might have the trauma or the mental health. You might have the codependency, the willingness to fix. No matter what the situation is, when it, it can't be fixed, it can be worked on because recovery or sobriety or whatever your word is. It's an ongoing process. And I've, had this conversation with others, like how much time of your own life have you put to this person or put to this family member or this son or this daughter? How much of your life has been on hold? And that's a hard, that's a really hard question to not only to be asked, but to answer because we don't want to think about that. We don't want to think about how much of, how much of our lives has been put on hold trying to help this other person. And then on the other side of it, we have family members that had totally given up that don't want anything to do with that person, that, that person that's in the street. So that person that's using it or the person that continuously going to jail, they just, just. I'm not going to have any deal with them. Don't call me, you know. But that family member is still suffering. I, and I just know this from my own personal experience. Out of sight, out of mind. It's not real. When we're dealing with our family members. It's just not. I think most, of us feel better and most family members feel better when their person is incarcerated because at least they know they're safe. They're not going to get a phone call saying that they're not here anymore. So when the recovery person heals, the family member gets to heal too. And that's going back around to that we thing.

Bianca McCall: I know, I love, the link in healing. Right. presenting that family member, that friend with the, with the opportunity to also heal in this process. And so for a family member, for a friend that responds the way that I gave an example of this is not my problem. Right. or I should not have to be involved in recovery. The problem is not with me, to me presenting them with an opportunity to say, you know, with your question, how much of your, your life has been on hold and I want to present you with this opportunity to also heal in this process. Right. It's validating their experiences and the impact that, that the opioid use, has had on them as well and on their families. and for some of us that's the being seen, being heard, being understood piece. Right. That we all desire as just human beings. And for family members and friends, it's. We see, we hear, we understand that you have also been impacted by your family members choices by your family members behavior by your family members experiences. Right. And I think it's, going back to. It's a we thing. I think it's also important to guide that conversation into what choices do you have? You know, at this point. Right. It's empowering to that. What choices do you have as a family member, as a friend, when someone's going through, through the recovery process? so I love all this. You know, I love it. I love, what you said about we're not broken. Right. And so oftentimes when, when you add the element of codependency and you have family and friends and even professionals can be in the, in the space of being codependent. Right. or these codependent tendencies in our, through our work. So when we're in this space, more often than not we're operating on the belief that this person needs to be fixed. Right. But you said such a profound statement. But we're not broken. We're not broken. Can you expand upon this, this idea that we're not broken? especially after you said that there's this thought process of, there's always. There's already this acceptance that you're going to die, right? That this is, this is life. There's an acceptance that you're going to die. So, so help me to understand, that, that line of thinking and then to arrive at. But we're not broken.

Cheryl Nixon: Well, again, I go back to, own personal experience, just being, like, caught up in so many things, like continuously going to jail and all the things that we do. And to my core, to my core belief. So a lot of times, we believe things because it was told to us so many times. And those things that we've heard over and over again, they become our core beliefs. Right? And so I believe it. I believe that I can't. I can't do this. And when I think about the brokenness, right. We can. You can take, a pretty glass cup. You just, you went shopping and you got this coffee mug and you set that. It's wrapped up nice and pretty and it's in the bag and you go in the house and the handles broke off of it. It's still a gorgeous cup. It's still. You still can drink coffee out of it, right? You just gotta put some glue and put the handle back on it. And when you put that handle back on it, it's still beautiful. But now you have to. We get, we don't have to. We get to work on the inside of the cup. We get to fill that inside of the cup with kindness and accountability and so many other beautiful things that we learn on this road to recovery. So when I say I'm not broken, maybe my handle is, you know, maybe my cup handle is. But the cup is still there, and the cup is still beautiful. And, that's what we, as. As a community and we as peers and therapists and all the people, that's what we get to pour. We get to pour something beautiful and show them that they can begin to pour something beautiful. Because in the beginning, I wasn't beautiful. I didn't think anything about me, my life, what I'd done, what I've done to my children, what I did to family. It wasn't beautiful. And I. I got to reframe my. My thinking that I am beautiful. Even on my bad days, I'm still a beautiful cup. I don't know if I answered that right, but, yeah, absolutely.

Bianca McCall: Absolutely. Shara, I. You are beautiful. You are beautiful.

Cheryl Nixon: It took work to get there. It took somebody believing in me that I could. I could be the wonderful and the beautiful woman that I am today, that I could be, that I can give back to the community that I've taken from for so long that I can see and give a hug to a person that, that just walked into the door or just walking down the street and. And I go, oh, my God, seven years ago, that was me. It's nothing like that. It's nothing like looking at someone not for what you see, but remembering being in that place. Like, I really believe that this is my purpose, and my purpose is to reach back and grab someone. Sus. Like me.

Bianca McCall: Mm.

Cheryl Nixon: Yeah.

Bianca McCall: Wow. Wow. I. You mentioned that there's. There's. There was one person who. Who believed in you. It just took one person. And you also mentioned, you know, the things that we hear, you know, become our. Become our beliefs. You know, they. They manifest into those, you know, the same things that we tell ourselves and in our thoughts, and they become our beliefs. And as a. As a continuum, a recovery continuum, and speaking to all the professionals and support staffs and peers and advocates and community members, that are a part of this in Nevada, what we tell our people in recovery, that are treatment engaged, the things that we tell them has such a power of influence over what they come to believe about themselves. And so if we are engaging people early or at any point in the recovery continuum, but let's think about early on in their recovery, at that decision point where they. They first decided that they are not going to die, that they won't accept that they're going to die in this life if we engage them, telling them something is wrong with you, I need to fix you, I'm going to be the one to fix you, or we are going to fix you. Even then, I, I believe that we have to understand the detriment in that because if we are telling people that they are broken, you know, maybe that's where the shift needs to happen. When we talk about, oh, we need to educate and, and all these things, is that, is that where we need to shift paradigm? Cheryl, in, in how we are communicating our roles in this person's recovery and how we are, communicating what we are, are seeing reflected. Are they, are they not a broken person?

Cheryl Nixon: Yeah, I just, I really believe that. you know, it's just this. When people first, when we first get clean or we first get started this journey to recovery, they're going to be stumbles, they're going to be, they're going to be times where they're not going to want to do anything and we don't give up on them. I don't care how many times return to use. I don't, I don't care how many times they miss appointments. I didn't know how to keep appointments. I didn't know how to show up. I didn't know how to make my bed. It had it. We do things repetitiously. Right? And so when people are early in recovery, sometimes we have to have that little bit of grace. They need that. And one of the biggest parts of my job here is retention. I get to make those phone calls and go, hey, you missed your appointment. How can I support you in that? What is the barrier? Is it transportation? Right. What is your barrier to coming to your appointment? I think that if we concentrate more on the barrier instead of the, you didn't. That's where the change starts. Why, why aren't you making this appointment again? Go back to. Do you need a coat? It's snowing outside. Did you come to your appointment because you didn't have a coat? Or his transportation, whatever that need is like, let's figure out the why. Because it's always, always, always a why.

Bianca McCall: I love that. Focus on, on eliminating the barriers. Right. Instead of pointing out the, and I won't say failures, but instead of pointing out the what hasn't been done in treatment. Right. What we may have missed. Instead of pointing that, pointing out the barriers. I love that. and thank you so much for sharing a little bit more about, the work that you do today and I'd love to hear more about this. What, you do, more about Northern Nevada hopes, and how you've been able to. Also for you, how you've been able to maintain recovery as a lifestyle, as intentional actions and as a mindset. and we've talked about this with some of the other panelists and throughout the listening session. This is through the most challenging times in recent human history. Right. And I want to know, Cheryl, how are you maintaining, during these times? And also, please tell us more about Northern Nevada hopes.

Cheryl Nixon: Okay, so how I'm maintaining is, self care, knowing when to pause, knowing I have my own little support, over here at hopes. And our team is so tight because we work together so closely. and I spend more time here at work. So we have those hard conversations with each other right here at work. working at Northern Nevada host, working with, the best thing, M. Matt, it's been amazing. It's been amazing to watch people come in and get all the love, and the support they need from the moment they walk in. Whether it's the sens and the mas, like every single body here plays a role. And it is so special to work here and work in this with the population that we serve. because they are us. They are us, they are family members, they are our, neighbors. And everybody that comes through the door, we get to meet them, we get to serve them. And it's just a beautiful thing, all the way around from the top on down and it's just really beautiful. And ah, we offer all kinds of services from mat, psychiatry, primary care, you name it. Hope's got it.

Bianca McCall: Hope's got it. And please, will you let us know Hope's got it. I love it. That's it right there. that's the mic drop that we've been even anticipating. Hopes. Got it. Sharon, will you let us know how can professionals in this space, in the recovery space, how can they connect with you and what should they be reaching out to you in Northern Nevada Hopes for?

Cheryl Nixon: you can reach out to Hopes. Like I said, for anything. You have a client, that needs primary care, that needs Iop. We have an awesome IOP program. And ah, you just call the main number that I dropped a plug, 775-78-64673 and you can connect whatever department. you just call that main number and someone will answer your call and help you. As far as the MAP program, we have our special online, which is the mat phone and it's 775-73-71326 and someone always have that phone. And we take walk ins, we take referrals. We have met orientation on Thursdays at our Fifth street clinic, which is 580 West Fifth street at 12 noon. yes, just come get services, get the help that you need. if we, if one department can't help, we will, we will find it. We will find a way.

Bianca McCall: I love it. I love it. Cheryl, thank you so much for sharing your personal lived experience, sharing your professional lived experience. Thank you so much for just joining us today and sharing your powerful insights on recovery, on peer support, on creating stigma free spaces and your, your dedication to this work. It's, it's truly inspiring. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And we're, we're grateful for the impact. Of course, of course. We're, we're so grateful for the impact that you're making in Nevada communities. and I want to, I want to take us to this point. you mentioned that, that there was, you know, all you needed was just one person to, to believe in you. And now I want to shift, you know, your, your attention to maybe the one person out there that is, that is searching for their, one person to believe in them. and if, and if there's one person out there who, who's heard our conversation today, you know, that, that's searching for their one person. What, what would you want them to, to take with them? What, what would you want the major takeaway to be for them? What do you want to say to them, that resonates with where they are in their particular, in their journey. but what do you think that somebody needs to hear from you today?

Cheryl Nixon: Never lose hope. Never lose hope. I don't care how dark it is. I don't care, how ah, hopeless it may seem. Never lose hope because you're one person. Your one person is there.

Bianca McCall: Never lose hope. Speaking to those that are out there that may be struggling, never give up. Speaking to the community that surrounds them. It's a we thing. They are me. I mean all these amazing nuggets that you've dropped here, on this platform. Cheryl, thank you so much. you know, thank you again for, for joining us and, and really, you know, to everyone who's listening. Yeah, no, and anytime. And we'd love to have you back, and, and sharing stories and, and, and I just can't think of another word other than beautiful to describe, you know, our conversation here today. So, so thank you, so much from. From all at. At at the NOCE Podcast. and. And no says the Nevada Opioid center of Excellence. we are so grateful. We are so grateful for you, Cheryl. Thank you. and that's brought us to the end of, our segment today. That's a wrap for today's episode. and if this conversation has resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, to share, to leave a review. And let's keep building this recovery friendly, spaces and community and breaking down the barriers together. Until next time, NOCE Dose stay safe, stay informed, take great care and be well. Thank you for listening to the NOCE Dose The Opioid Epidemic Unplugged. We hope that you found this episode compelling and informative and we ask ask that you please share this episode with your friends and your colleagues. And if you want to learn more, please visit our website at nvopioidcoe.org. the NOCE Dose podcast is brought to you by the Nevada Opioid Center of Excellence, or NOCE NOCE is dedicated to developing and sharing evidence, informed training and offering technical assistance to professionals and community members alike. now whether you are a care provider or a concerned community member, NOCE provides resources to support those affected by opioid use. Funding for this activity was made possible in whole or in part by the Nevada Department of Health and Human Services, DHHS Director's Office through the Fund for Resilient Nevada.

Speaker 2: CASAT Podcast Network this podcast has been brought to you by the CASAT Podcast Network, located within the center for the Application of Substance Abuse Technologies, a part of the School of Public Health at the University of Nevada, Reno. For more podcast information and resources, visit casat.org.