The Nose Dose offers a deeper dive into the realities faced by professionals combating opioids

Bianca McCall: CASAT Podcast Network. Welcome to the NOCE Dose Opioid Crisis Unplugged. The NOCE Dose Opioid Crisis Unplugged is a concise and insightful podcast offering a deeper dive into the realities faced by professionals combating the opioid epidemic. Join us as we reconnect with expert panelists from our listening sessions, providing a, ah, behind the scenes look at their work and insights into the pressing issues of prevention and diversion, harm reduction, opioid use, treatment, recovery and reoccurrence prevention. Welcome to the NOCE Dose, brought to you by the Nevada Opioid Center of excellence at nvopioidcoe.org I am your host with the NOCE, Bianca D. McCall, going behind the front lines with paraprofessionals and community members alike who support the opioid response programming in Nevada State. And we are gathered here today to debrief after the latest no Sponsored listening session. We had a packed virtual room. The responsiveness was incredible. And I said this to the technical team at NOCE that I saw claps, I saw hearts, I saw celebration emojis, as all were consistent throughout the event. And our listeners are very much looking forward to continuing the conversation with our subject matter experts, our panelists for and of the people and our NOCE Dose Unplugged.


Donald Griffin is a peer recovery support specialist and former criminal

Today's special guest is Donald Griffin. And Donald is a peer recovery support specialist. A supervisor. Right, And a peer recovery supervisor. And that is like the Holy Grail from the Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Right. Donald is a community health worker too, and is the co founder and director of Black Wall Street, a Reno born organization leading the installation of NARCAN in youth, peer to peer programming and suicide prevention and other essential services and outreach teams. And Donald, what seemed to really resonate with the, listening session audience was your vulnerability and your sharing of your personal lived experiences with alcohol and other substances. And for me, I got to say it was when you said, I didn't lose my son, but you changed the language when you shared the experience of substance use disorder would have you give him away and into the system. And for any parent listening then and now, and they can perhaps imagine the emotional and the spiritual pain in that, right? The harm in that and the guilt, the anxiety, the regret, which requires deep healing on many levels, which requires deep understanding of the recovery process, which requires a deep commitment in the work of harm reduction and prevention. So that you're rewriting the love story that your son and your family will know and grow from, right? So, Donald, getting right into it, would you say that that's what motivates you to do this work? Is this work about healing the relationship with yourself, your source, and with the world and who all, you consider to be your world?

Donald Griffin: Yes, yes. So let me get in my comfortable zone. So I like to introduce myself as Donald, alcoholic, addict, and former criminal. And yes, it is. It is all a healing process for myself. like, I didn't lose my kids. I gave them away. I care more about the drinking and drugging and partying than I did my kids at the time. I told them that I loved them. I did. I honestly meant it. But once I put that drug and that other substance into my veins, it was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. My son was born with my addictions. He was born prematurely, and when he was born, he was born with a cleft foot. So each week we had to go get his foot straightened out with a cast. He couldn't eat, so we had to get a G tube. He was born with surgery and our addiction. His mother later on lost the battle to addiction, and she was cremated across the street from the Triangle Club, where I go to my AA meetings. So this whole journey has been a healing process. It wasn't like some divine hand popped out of the sky and said, oh, I got you. It was those late night prayers under that bridge when I just had a needle in my thoughts. It was the times I were arrested and I said, God, you get me out of this one and I'll tell everybody it was you. And that's how it started. And once I let the devil hand go and started working for God, those. When those miracles started happening, they speak so freely of these in these recovery rooms.


Donald says deep healing requires work on self

Bianca McCall: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. alone under a bridge with a needle in your thoughts. can you share just a little bit more about that? Because when we think about this, right, and we think about, specifically, you know, at a substance use disorder, specifically with. With, substances, opioids, right? When we think about, IV usage, right? And people who are using drugs, we oftentimes, I think as a society, we criminalize that behavior, right? we. It's. It's our implicit nature wants to blame that individual for the experiences that they're going through, right? And so we say, if you don't want those experiences, then simply, right? We think simply, don't use drugs, right? Don't use these substances. but. But you and I both know, Donald, and I'd love to hear more about your experiences, but you and I both know that this is not A simple, simple process. And when we talk about healing, right, in recovery, that there are so many different layers, right? And so many things to look at. We can look at mental and behavioral health, right? We can look at, what's considered to be existential health, right? Healing. Those existential concerns of life, death, meaning freedom, right. And having a sense of purpose. What did that look like for you, alone under a bridge with a needle in your thoughts?

Donald Griffin: My thoughts and the needle went hand in hand. They. They played tricks on me. One morning I was going to go jump off the bridge, and on my way to go jump off the bridge, a lady spoke to me. How you doing? She recognized me. I was no longer the unseen at that time. And that let me fight just one more day. Maybe, maybe. But there was never a yellow brick road, to recover. There was never, hey, once you really want to stop, how do I stop? Because I've been doing it for 23 years. This is all I pretty much has wired my mind to be. So there was no yellow brick road. And once I did recover, I spent two years in getting to know myself. That means just that. The meetings, work, and the gym. For two years. My sponsor said, if you feel like dating, get a plant. And if that plant you can take care of, then date. I got eight of them now I got eight plants because that's part of my healing process.

Bianca McCall: So, yeah, gosh, work, right? I think when we. Especially as professionals in the space, right? And when we talk about the experience, when we externalize, right. And talk about the experience of recovery and of healing, I think sometimes we can get lost in that language, in the fluff of that language, right? But understanding that we're talking about some real work, right? deep healing requires work, on self, that being in the position of being vulnerable, of the self, reflection of the acknowledging, you know, feelings and things like that that have been masked for years, that have been numbed for years. And so confronting all that, this is not easy.


Donald, talk about how culture has impacted recovery process for you

And then on top of this, Donald, I really want to talk about and how it relates to, the mission of Black Wall Street. But I really want to talk about, how culture has impacted this process for you. Because you said something, really profound. You said, the unseen, right? you felt seen when this woman talked to you and really intervened without even knowing, right? As you're there with the needle and the thought, so as a black man, right. As a person of color, feeling seen, feeling heard, feeling understood, there's already these challenges with that when we talk about the impact of culture and so, can you, can you talk a little bit about what that impact looked like for you in your healing process? just being a black man and making, that decision, being at that decision point, to choose recovery, to.

Donald Griffin: Choose healing as being a black man, there was. You had to die like John Wayne with your boots on in the saddle. You couldn't be express your feelings. You had to man up. And I was raised by a single mother who had seven, brothers. And out of all seven brothers, it's a total of, I did the math, over 150 years of prison that has been served. So the way I was raised, my mother was raised by these brothers who, going in and out of prison and then they come down, trickle down, those traumas is passed down to us by the way we're disciplined, by the way we expressed our feelings. So I was always told, don't show emotions, don't show these feelings. So in order for me to reach out to another man, hey, I'm feeling like this. And then there's not anybody of color up in Reno who's actually doing this recovery thing. It might be a sprinkle here and there, but majority of the time I'm feeling like an ink spot in a bowl of milk. These gentlemen, they say look for the similarities and not the differences. So when they asked me, did I want to go fishing? No. I'm trying to figure out why I'm crying. I'm trying to figure out who I am and what has made me. I had to build this shell of a man. I have to take these organs, I have to take these eyes, and I have to place this in this shell of a man and make a new man. And there's no other outlet of people who look like I look. There's no other people who talk like I talk. So that's what we come up with. The paraphrase of the slogan that recovery looks like us. Because when I'm in these rooms and I'm listening to somebody who has never been, I'm from South Central Los Angeles who have never seen anybody killed and should nobody see this? But this is my life. I've seen somebody die in front of me on the way to school. I've seen drive by shootings. So when people can't talk to me and have an understanding, not sympathy, but have an understanding of where I coming from, without me have to explain is difficult as a black man. And when this lady see me, she didn't see me As a black man, she didn't see me as a person that was addicted to my lifestyle. She seen me as a person that needed to be saved at that point in time.

Bianca McCall: Yeah, yeah. such a, such a powerful message, that recovery looks like us. And this is, this is why it's so, so important. Right. And we touched on this during the listening session. Just a bit about how substance use disorder and specifically how opioid epidemic has impacted black and African American communities. the rate of opioid overdose deaths among black people already exceeds that of white people in several states. However, not the case in Nevada. But the Nevada Epidemiologic, profile released in January of 2023 did report that the adult black non Hispanic population had the highest rate of mental health utilization from 2013 to 2021 when compared to other race and ethnicities. And, the black non Hispanic communities, also represent the highest number of incarcerated individuals with substance use disorder. So we know that black African, Africa's global diaspora and the Latinx people are diverted to the criminal legal system rather than to addiction treatment. And that's representing nearly 60% of the incarcerated population. And an estimated 47% of those had a substance use disorder in the year prior to their admission. Right. And so for black and brown groups that I just mentioned, over 90% of those respectively diagnosed with substance use disorder did not receive addiction treatment. And 70% of those who did did not complete their treatment programs. And 95% of those incarcerated experienced a reoccurrence. Right. Formally referred to as a relapse within one year of their release or discharge from being incarcerated. Right. so. And these are the highest rates of recurrence that we see in the first 30 days after discharge. So, Donald, it's the lack of discussion, right, of black overdose deaths in the national opioid, discourse. It further marginalizes black people. Right. And it's highly consistent with this history of framing addictions of people of color as deserving of criminal punishment rather than worthy of medical treatment.


Black Wall Street develops culturally targeted programs to help black communities affected by opioid crisis

And so can you talk to us more, expand upon the recovery looks like us. And talk to us more about how does Black Wall Street's role, or excuse me, what is Black Wall Street's role in developing more culturally targeted programs that benefit black communities in the opioid crisis?

Donald Griffin: I'm glad you asked that, because I was arrested 33 times. I, did eight different programs. But now that I see that when they get arrested is, hey, let's take them to a rehab. I never had that option. I Had to go sit in jail or go to prison. It was definitely, you didn't have the option to weigh out. My role here is that there was nobody who looked like me. So that's what we're taking to the schools. We're in five different schools that we're able to go into and teach recovery, suicidal ideation, speak about that. Suicide prevention, bullying. So what we do is we make the pamphlets that looks like us, people that look like me. I go into the schools and I talk to them. Hey, recovery can look like overeating, overthinking, over exercising, whatever your. What you need m healing from is what it is. So we're also a diaper bank, a food pantry. We take the kids ziplining for suicide, prevention. And we also go into the communities. We have over 20 locations of Narcan boxes For those who can't get the Narcan, we bring it to them. So just to have recovery looks like us. And our billboards go up in November that it shows the native, the Hispanic, the blacks, and it takes the now it is dealing with the black community and the brown community. Because every time I look up on a, billboard or a, brochure, it doesn't. I don't have any desire to read anymore because it has Suzy on the front, blonde hair, blue eyes. And that's what I feel like. The black community doesn't think that this drug is for us. Yeah, crack rocked us because every time you seen a crack commercial, it was a black person. So we knew that was for us. However, there wasn't any, reparation, ah, for that generation. If you think about it, there was no. That was jail time. There wasn't any rehab. So now you have these children who was affected by the crack epidemic, having babies that are affected by the opiate pandemic. So it's just a cycle. It's like a stock market with the drugs. One goes up, one comes down.

Bianca McCall: So. Yeah, no, and I appreciate you sharing that.


Donald Wall: Representation matters when discussing harm reduction

And I also something, that you said, that I'd like to highlight is that, when we talk about harm reduction, and that was certainly the subject matter that we discussed the listening session. and what we carry into today's conversation when we talk about harm reduction, that these strategies for harm reductions, it has to look differently. Right? It has to be culturally responsive, linguistically, m appropriate. And what you mentioned is, representation matters. Right? Is that in the content on these flyers, in these, infomercials, these educational resources in the content, black communities Black and brown communities, they must be represented, and not just represented. I love the distinction that you gave. Not just represented as, these are the people that are affected, right. That are using drugs. Right. Not represented in a light that, you are on the streets, you are dying. Right. It's the catastrophic. It's the superlative representation of, of what does drug use do to you. Right. Not just represented as being, the person that's using drugs, but represented as the person that is recovering, that is resilient, also represented as the provider of service, the provider of that healing, the guide in that healing and recovery process that is so important for all of these materials to see us reflected in all areas, in all aspects of recovery. Right. And that being so important. So I appreciate you, I appreciate you sharing that. you also said that a part of Black Wall Street's mission is to go into all areas of community, right, and talk to, direct this conversation towards, like, or our community, right. The affinity community. Black and brown people. You're going in and you're, you're targeting those groups, I wonder, in just not only speaking to black and brown communities with this particular podcast, but speaking to maybe non, ah, black, non Hispanic communities, right, who are interested, interested in learning more, and becoming, improving and increasing their cultural sensitivities and humilities. Right. To work with, to engage with, black and brown communities as we're talking to that group, what would you want to share with those listeners? What would be helpful for them to keep in mind if they are engaging black and brown communities like Black Wall street.

Donald Griffin: Have a representation of somebody who can go in there and fit that narrative. That is key. This is like when we're dealing with police officers. If I see a black police officer, I instantly feel more comfortable because now I don't have to explain who I am. And that's where I see that when I'm dealing with our youth in harm reduction, they're more, hey, what's going on? They're more energized. They're more, you know, projected. And then when we get next to our white counterparts, they're. They clam up. And I always, why is that? But I know, but I want them to tell me, why are you closing up? Why do you see yourself as different? And then I go to these different schools, and over here they want to be rappers and baseball players, and over here they just want to take over their family business. So I know it's psychological. I know that when I'm over here and I'm dealing with my students. I have to let them know if you're not up at 4 in the morning, exercising, going to school and then practice again, you're not going to make it. I have to be honest with them. So just to tell, those who still want to help out and work, please come. But just be mindful that we're not looking for sympathy or empathy. We want understanding and a mental reparation. Hey, you know, if you don't understand, that's okay. But let me tell you what's going on in my life and just listen if that's all you can do.

Bianca McCall: Yeah, yeah. And I wonder too, for communities that don't have, adequate, you know, an equitable representation, on their staff or don't have access to peers in recovery with lived experiences with, with mental health crises, with substance use disorder, specific, to the opioid epidemic. Right. And for those organizations that it's more challenging for them to have that level of representation, in their organization. Is there a way that they can connect with black Wall Street, Right, to help and support by being that representation, to collaborate, to partner on initiatives so that there is that representation in partnership. but Donald, how can professionals in the prevention and harm reduction spaces connect with you and what can they call you for?

Donald Griffin: they can connect with black. Wallstreetreno.gov is our website they can go to. They can connect us for anything. We're always open to collaborate, especially when we're reaching the students. That's our biggest goal, is our future, politicians, our future doctors. That is our key. We actually receive more help from people who don't look like us. Yeah, you know, a lot of people. The main question is, is black Wall street just for black people? No, it's for everybody. But I'm a lion and I gotta look out for the lioness and the cubs that are out there. You know, it's not that I don't. So my grandson, last name is Vega. So my daughter, son, is half black and half Hispanic. So my roots are in the black and brown community. But I have to be mindful because I got some backlash. And they say, well our ah, white students look up to you as well. So it's not just about color, it's just about what is. You know, all students are welcome is what I'm trying to say. You know, everybody's welcome. If they want to help, they can reach out. And we're more than welcome to partner.

Bianca McCall: Well, I love the, I love the affinity, I share, the particular affinity for working with young people. and I love what you're saying. By challenging our perceptions of what it is to be culturally sensitive, cultural humility, culturally competent. Right. and the culturally responses, responsiveness, it has to go further than race and ethnicity. You know, race and having, Having language and representation, content, resources, supports for black and brown communities is such an important, effort and initiative as we've defined by you know, some of those statist of what those communities are experiencing. But also when we look at culture from a lens of gender, of sex, of economics. Right. and then when we look at the global diaspora of some of these race and ethnicities. Right. And we looked at mixed race. Right.


I appreciate you, um, bringing that to the forefront of the conversation

I appreciate you, bringing that to the forefront of the conversation as well is that when we talk about improving as providers, improving our harm reduction strategies as providers and practitioners and community members alike, we have to challenge ourselves and stretch ourselves to think about culture, in much more of a continuum. Right. It's not black and white, pun intended. Right. there's a continuum and there's ah, a global diaspora of folks. Right. And especially in Nevada where you've got such a transience in some of the urban areas, where you've got people from all over that are calling Nevada State, this great silver state, their home. so thank you for that.


Donald Wall Street: The listening session got such an incredible response

I want to ask about the listening session specifically. Like I said, it got such an incredible response from all who were able to attend. and we continue to get great feedback, people wanting recordings for those that are receiving snippets. Right. Of the content. I'd like to know Donald, what stood out to you? What was the most profound thing that you were able to take away from the listening session?

Donald Griffin: everything, the different parts of the wheel, the different parts that make this machine work that we're doing across the country, especially in Nevada, it's desperately needed. We're losing the battle with our children, but just the key components that is making this wheel turn and a big shout out to the state opiate response who helps black Wall street with this to keep it going with the billboards, our TV commercials and radio. thank you to wake up Nevada who help us with our Narcan boxes spread around town. These women and people have lived experience who have lost somebody who heart is dedicated into this. And when I sit in these rooms and I, listen just like on this podcast and just to get the word out that people are not alone. So if you just got some WI fi and you up under that $6 million bridge with just a needle in your thoughts and you can hear this, then that's saving your life and you don't have to jump. That's what's powerful.

Bianca McCall: Yeah. Yeah. And gosh, what a great segue because that was.


Donald, what is your lasting message to someone struggling with addiction

My next question is, I wanted you to offer any lasting messages and specifically speaking to another person that's under the bridge with a needle in their thought. And in this case you get to be, you know, the, in the same role that that woman was for you. Right? And what is that, that lasting message? What do you tell that person?

Donald Griffin: That's deep. I get teary eyed. You got materiated. Oh, finish the game. Finish the game of life. Don't, don't, don't. Let me be mindful. I'll say this. Don't take the easy way out. Finish, the game. You, you know, find your purpose and what you're here for and do it.

Bianca McCall: Mm, mm. Wow. I, you know, I'm fully accountable, to making you teary eyed and things. I'm you know, I'm getting warmed up, with this podcast, this podcast experience, you know. And what I love about the NOCE Dose, right, this platform. What I love about being able to talk to real, people, right, like you, is that, you know, this is an opportunity to be vulnerable, right? And I always say there's a fine line between vulnerability and courage, right? And you're right, easy way being defined as, you know, it's actually easier to not feel, right, to numb, to mask, to lie, right? To be dishonest with ourselves, with other people, to escape, right? and I'm not. There's no judgment on any particular action, right, that's associated with, but even in our thoughts, right? It's easier, to distance ourselves from the true power, right, that we have over our thoughts, right? In our beliefs and feelings and behaviors and experiences, right? It's easier to distance ourselves from that, to not take accountability. And that's for anybody, whether you're using drugs or not, right? It's easier. That's why they say ignorance is bliss, right? Easier to not be accountable. But in the culture that we are collectively, attempting to reshape here the harm reduction community and the culture of, how we prevent, these crises from happening, how we reduce the harm, for folks that are actively using, how we treat, and how we heal, how we recover in order to reshape that, that culture into a what's called a just culture, right? A just culture is that we all have to accept our role, our responsibilities, towards, achieving the ultimate goal. And that's not one more person, right? That's not one more person that's dying by suicide. That's not one more person, that's overdosing on opioids, right? Or on drugs. we, we need a just culture, right, where we're all accountable. And, and this is, this is a challenge. This is, this is hard work. This is this complex stuff. And so I appreciate, the messaging of, it's. I know it's, it's tempting, right? But let's not take the easy path, you know, together, collectively, as communities, as, ah, reflections and representations of recovery, right? Together we can heal this, right? We can return back. And, that takes us back to what you described as your motivations, right? Your motivation for doing this. So thank you so much, Donald, for chatting with me today. Gosh, I could talk to you all day.


Donald, thank you again for joining us on the no stove podcast

but at this time I'd like to ask you just any other things, any other messages, thoughts, resources that you'd like to share with our listeners.

Donald Griffin: feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and heal us that are sick and addicted.

Bianca McCall: Let's heal the sick and addicted. And I love it. Donald, thank you again for joining us on the no stove. It has been an absolute pleasure. and thank you for joining us on the listening session. Like I said it was, the rece responses, have been incredible. People really appreciating just how real you are, how vulnerable you are. you know, authentic authenticity, I always say, is attractive. Right? It attracts people's attention. and we thank you so much for attracting people to this very important conversation. Thank you.

Donald Griffin: Thank you.

Bianca McCall: Yes, sir.


The Nose Dose podcast focuses on helping those affected by opioid use

Thank you for listening to the NOCE Dose. The Opioid Epidemic Unplugged. We hope that you found this episode compelling and informative, and we ask that you please share this episode with your friends and your colleagues. And if you want to learn more, please visit our website@nvopioidcoe.org the NOCE Dose podcast is brought to you by the Nevada Opioid Center of Excellence, or NOCE. NOCE is dedicated to developing and sharing evidence, informed training and offering technical assistance to professionals and community members alike. Now, whether you are a care provider or a concerned community member, NOCE provides resources to support those affected by opioid use. Funding for this activity was made possible in whole or in part by the Nevada Department of Health and Human Services, DHHS Director's Office, through the Fund for Resilient Nevada. M CASAT Podcast Network this podcast has been brought to you by the CASATT Podcast Network, located within the Center for the Application of Substance Abuse Technologies, a part of the School of Public Health at the University of Nevada, Reno. For more podcast information and resources, visit casat.org.